Return this item for free. Watt recirculating pump installed on the water heater (pump plugged into standard 110/120V outlet, 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors, valve). To create an energy-efficient full recirculation system, your pump has to come with these two efficiency optimizing parts. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Some pumps, in order to avoid needing a dedicated return path, will recirculate the water via the cold water supply, so getting some hot water from the cold supply would be normal in this case. If required, replace the thermistor. After draining a few hot water tanks over the years, removing sediment, will the cold water now possibly have some sediment and/or taste issues. We have 6 Navien NR-210A manuals available for free PDF download: Service Manual, Operation & Installation Manual, Installation Manual, Owner's Operation Manual, Quick Installation Manual Navien NR-210A Service Manual (179 pages) NR/NP Series Tankless Gas Water Heater Brand: Navien | Category: Water Heater | Size: 21.79 MB Table of Contents What I imagined would happen is 3-4 seconds of cold and then super hot water that was just waiting for me from the recirculation. Once the display stops flashing, the temperature setting is stored. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The default setting is usually around 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Works great and saves the copper pipes. Navien NaviCirc Recirculation Valve Description How it works Specifications Dimensions Page 12 Turn off and discontinue use of the water heater if any of the vent . How Much Does 500 Watts Cost Per Hour? Second, you can use a flex connector to isolate the pump. However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink for a few seconds the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. How do hot water recirculation pumps work to get hot water fast? It will help you avoid common water heater issues and let you operate the unit smoothly. $44.90. You can also identify and fix them yourself. Parts that will actually be used depend on what kind of hot water recirculation pump you have. The temperature sensor, on the other hand, makes sure you dont needlessly use too much energy to heat the water. Using a corrosion-free flow sensor made of stainless steel is a better option. Way too many variables to even begin to diagnose online IMO. Yes!!! 30000466A Navien Circulation Pump NAPU9GLPCT33 . Then remove the cold water filter off located next to the cold water isolation valve. Foreign materials like small pebbles may get into the recirculation pump. When the water is sufficiently hot, the temperature sensor will shut off the power to the recirculation pump to conserve energy. Its really an easy task to do. Remove the screw that secures the air intake filter and then remove the filter. When its time to work with a recirculating pump, you should follow some instructions to avoid further hassles. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman. You can turn it off during work hours, over the night, when you go on vacations, and so on. Our goal here at GridSub is to help you find viable solutions to different off-grid problems. Calculator + Chart (Natural Gas), Average Gas Bill For 1-Bedroom Apartment: State-By-State Cost Analysis, Average Electricity Bill For 4 Person Household (Survey Analysis), How Many kWh Per Day Is Normal? Thanks. After using this amount of time, hardware gets old and starts to malfunction. Open the service port on the host side and the isolation valve on the cold side, pushing water through the system. (std. NEC 310.16 Table: Copper And Aluminum Wire Ampacity Chart, NEC 310.12 Table: Wire Sizes For 100-400 Amp Services (83% Rule), kWh To Therms Calculator + Conversion Chart (1 kWh = 0.03412 Therms), MMBTU To Therms Calculator + Chart (1 MMBTU = 10 Therms), Therms To MMBTU Calculator + Chart (1 Therm = 1/10 MMBTU), AWG To Circular Mils Chart (For 4/0 AWG To 20 AWG). You can contact a plumber if necessary. Second, you can use a flex connector to isolate the pump. (Per Hour, Month, Year), How Much Does A Tankless Water Heater Cost? When you turn on the shower or a faucet, do you get hot water instantly? It can take anywhere from 10 seconds to 1 minute for the hot water to reach the faucet. All you have to do is browse through our guides, answers and personal experience documentations to find out what you should (or shouldn't) do when going off the grid. In fact, with a tankless water heater, you face double trouble (thats why youre not getting hot water fast): Because we need to wait longer for hot water in the case of tankless water heaters vs. traditional water heaters, it makes sense to minimize that time in tankless heaters even more. Did you mount the contact switch next to the Navien? If youre using this pump and cant fix it yourself, you can call a professional mechanic to fix it. I used a razor and carefully pried each side of the RM11 open to reach the programming switch. Turn off the recirculation when the house is not occupied, in order to save even more energy. An open or short thermistor can be the root cause of this problem. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages. Question: Can a recirculating pump last for 10-15 years?Answer: If you use it properly, it should last at least 10-15 years. Is there a check valve? You can set it to run in the morning before work, and in the evening. It's unfortunate he's not around to explain all this to you. 2. It is propelled only by water pressure. Pour two gallons of white vinegar into a 5gallons bucket. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. What kind of range do you get from the remotes? We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. Timers and wifi sockets are quite cheap. We will presume that youre buying a hot water circulation pump for a household of 4 and that each person wastes about 2 gallons of water per day (mean value of Oak Ridge National Laboratorys study). But, making sure youre doing it the right way is important. Find products from Grundfos related to this subject. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after you've turned it off for your safety. You also have to flush the heat exchanger. The recirculation pump will make a squeaking noise if the installer fails to install the primary loop correctly. Do you want to know the details? And. This happens when you have a huge heater and lower gas output. That means that all the costs of the hot water circulation pump are covered by the water savings. This may require chasing the supply lines. Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump - YouTube 0:00 / 4:21 Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump RCGooner2002 240 subscribers Subscribe. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! Lets look at the two most popular types: You can install hot water or tankless hot water recirculation pump in an existing or in a new home. On the other hand, if you find no foreign stuff, ensure you purge the air out of the system. Also, make sure you get the 1- pipe for the horizontal manifold, which will help even out the flow of the recirculators. This error informs you there is something wrong while you reset the unit. I have a tankless water heater with an external recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. The only problem you have is there is no check valves in place check valves or like stop signs that direct traffic check valves, direct to flow of water. Prevention of Modern Slavery Progress Reports. Is this noise normal coming from my Navien tankless heater? Obviously, you might be wondering: If the recirculation pump loop is running continuously, youre probably expanding too much electricity just to get hot water faster. It is affordable and can easily fix your problem. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. The Navien is smart enough to stop recirculation when it recognises hot water has made the entire loop. Its not exactly normal. So, ensure you purge the air out of the recirculation pump to operate the unit quietly. The recirculation pump is fixed on the water heater. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. Are these pumps just a luxury that enables you to get hot water lightning fast, or do they actually save you money? 2. Costs associated with hot water circulation pumps (parts + installation + DIY savings). Turn the unit off. Unfortunately, the heat exchanger cannot be fixed and has to be replaced. There are filters that prevent the sediment from entering the water flow. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? What effect does this have on gas usage for instant hot water? It depends on how the recirculation pump is installed, and some other factors, plumbers usually know this stuff pretty well. Navien NPE-240 A Recirculation Linewww.amazon.com/shop/miheatingguyMilwaukee 2131-20 M18 ROCKET Dual Power Tower Lighthttps://amzn.to/3pe2hYHMilwaukee M12 Surge Hydraulic Driver Kit #2551-22https://amzn.to/3n5offbMakita E-01563 Impact XPS 3 Pc. IF it does, could it be controlled remotely? Then, tighten up the cap again once you remove all the air from the loop. Not only that, by now you should know how to turn it off and why its important to do so. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Allow the vinegar to circulate through the heater for a minimum of one hour (longer if the pump runs at less than four gallons per minute). Take care! Going off the grid sounds noble, satisfying and eco-friendly. We always take the pros vs. cons approach because nothing is perfect. The exhaust thermostat is malfunctioning. I am wondering if you have a Navilink and if you by any chance went in like I did and clicked the "disable/enable button" and turned off the schedules, I did change that - thinking it was a glitch that on first launch "enable" was showing. To install a full recirculating pump system, you need to consult with a plumber because you will need an extra pipe. Legal Disclosure:Lildutchuncle.com provides and shares information on plumbing, heating & air quality, home improvement, and other DIY projects. I agree the user manuals are very helpful. Here are some simple instructions on how to turn on your Navien tankless water heater. Turn off the device and examine the APSs condition. It also may be as simple as a dip switch in the tankless unit itself. This serves two functions: You save water. I kind of feel like he is trying to get away with something that wasnt installed properly but hopefully I am wrong. This issue is more common in older heater models. Well tackle the installation and running costs of a circulating pump in full near the end. Examine and wash the intake air filter underneath running water using a toothbrush. In large systems, however, it may be advantageous to use controlled pumps to enable adjustment of the flow when starting up the system and to be able to apply temperature control. Remove the inlet filter and wash it under the running water with the help of a brush. I mounted the contact switch inside the cabinet per the kit instructions. Its a piece of cake to bleed the air out of your Navien recirculation pump. Does It Save Money? I don't hear the heater "fire up" right away when the tap is opened and can't tell if the recirculation pump is running. Putting one recirc line in won't turn a line and branch system into a loop system automatically. You can crack open the manual for your tankless heater and check if it comes with that option. Water recirculating pumps just circulate the water; the water pressure should stay the same. Another sign is the error code display. It shows that the heating return thermistor is not working correctly. Plug n play (after removing front panel to access the plug). We have to keep the valve on and slowly hot water comes out. Contents show What Parts Are In The Hot Water Circulation Pump Kits? Separate Recirculation Pumps. Most of information is available in the install manual but some of it requires a phone call to Navien support. Full Recirculation Pump System - Going this route adds additional piping to your system, allowing for a "hot water loop" to be created, ensuring the water doesn't end up sitting and going cold in your pipes and instead is recirculated, ready for the next time you turn on the tap. If yes, clean them. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot, Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, Easy DIY Media Cabinet Build with Basic Tools, From Cast-Iron to Stainless-Steel: How to Replace Your Kitchen Sink, While theres no water in the pump, do not turn on the recirculating pump. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. That may present a problem in the summer when you need cold water; turning the pump off during the summer months solves the problem. It is an indication that your warm water outlet thermistor has some problems. The recirculation timer is set to operate ever 15 minutes, even though we are often not at the property. (State-By-State Chart), How To Convert Therms To kWh? House generators are quite expensive. Do you want to know the details? Side question: are you able to explain to me what always on means? It tells you about the improper operation of the flow sensor. Check the wiring and cold water inlet two thermistors and make sure both are in good condition. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. That install is exactly as specified in the newer manuals. Reconnect the power supply to the water heater. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Not really. To change the water temperature; Check this too: Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. they have an accessory called the HotButton (PZZZ-00046). Manage Settings It shows that the water adjustment valve is not operating properly. Then what are we waiting for? The total amount of water needed is 2 gallons + 1.5 gallons + (3 gallons * length of shower). Ensure the main gas supply valve is open. I have a new Noritz tankless water heater that includes an AquaMotion recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. Otherwise, turn it off. Open the pressure relief valve. The recirculation pump saves on water bills by reducing the time to get hot water. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Purchasing a timer will also fix the problem. Types of water circulation pumps, including tankless water heater recirculation pumps. T = the water cooling, normally 5 C determined at the farthest consumption point [C]. Turning off your water recirculating pump reduces damage. Hi Patrick, thats a good insight. Turn off the unit and check the valve's wiring and condition. The setup is correct and the only two settings you need are P.12 for recirculation time and P.16 for length of recirculation line from farthest point in the house. This may temporarily help to remedy the issue. Note: Remember to turn off power to the heater before replacing the gasket. First, place a thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. To understand this problem what I am talking about, you can watch this video: First off, I recommend you check the primary loop. Though we share resources, information, and educational guide on plumbing & DIY projects, the content here is not a substitute for professional guidance. Make sure that the drain hose will empty the scaling solution into the bucket. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. Next, hook hoses to the valves, then open them to drain the water. Turns out that it was the temperature of the return water was high enough to stop the recirculation. In fact, however, the whole machinery of the hot water recirculating pump has to be activated for this to happen. link to Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? To select a recirculation mode, you must set the DIP switches on the front panel, and set the position of the 2-way valve inside the water heater. We want to reduce waste in using water given our well situation. It tells you about the abnormality of the external tank thermistor. A recirculation system is a hot water line that runs throughout the house and returns back to the water heater. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman to fix the issue. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Eric Alvarez is an HVAC guy based in El Paso, Texas, United States. There are more options, for example- you can buy a wifi socket. Tankless Water Heater Wire Size Calculator: What Gauge Wire (AWG)? So, hire a professional to deal with the issue. What parts does a home water recirculation pump include, and where to install it. 1. Ensure the recirculation pump was installed correctly. Just locate the air bleeder valve on top of the recirculation system. The main sign of motherboard or control board failure is intermittent switching off and on. It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. This is because the motherboard or control board is the units brain responsible for receiving and transmitting information in the heater. Does anyone know the logic behind how Navien controls their internal recirculation pump when it is circulating with an external loop? He said he tied in both in the master bath and the kitchen but it seems if that were the case at a minimum they would have hot water quickly. A family of 4 with normal water usage can expect to save $50-$75 a year. Heres the thing: Both cold and hot water need to be supplied using the same pipe. 2. Check if there is any gas leakage before turning it on after a couple of days. If it does, you could trigger the operation to save money whenever your system detected 'away' or however you've got it programmed. You can turn off the recirculating pump in various ways. How? What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. Well, If you overuse your pump, it will start malfunctioning. Yes, you can turn it off by yourself. Answer: It really depends on your model type. First, open and close the pressure relief valve, which is located near the units outlet. Purchase and install a rocker switch or "doorbell" style buttons to activate the NRCR "on-demand" mode to prime the pump for use only when you want it. That's an interesting solution. You can change the cold water inlet thermistor if necessary. I obviously dont know much about this but the plumber is giving reasons that feel like he is making up dont make sense to me: 1. Where does the circulation return line tie in, and where is this in relation to the Naviien unit, other fixtures, and appliances in the home? However, many first-time and beginner road travelers and RV How to Connect a Generator to Your Tiny House Without a Transfer Switch. When you operated the hot water tap the last time you needed it, the water shuts off as soon as you turn off the tap. I have alos checked my HeatBox settings to ensure the temp is set high enough for my domestic supply (set to around 120 degrees). Solution: Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valve's direction. Ensure you mount the pump securely. There are no error codes showing. The issue is most likely, the flow sensor inside the unit is not spinning correctly. Then, turn it on again. The air will need to be bled out of the system. It is caused by an open or shorted air pressure sensor. Make sure the electrical cord is grounded. He has a good standing reputation for superior skills in heating, air conditioning, hot water tanks, and indoor air quality systems. And thats a wrap! Then, read the manual on Navien tankless water heater how to reset. It could be open or shorted. It sounds awful and not like any other recirculating pump I've ever heard. Categories Home Improvement, Patio, Lawn & Garden, Plumbing, Tools, Water Valve Handle Broke Off? Hi. Hi: Remove the intake filter and properly wash it using a brush beneath running water. A place for plumbing advice and help. Then what are we waiting for? Make sure to follow the instructions before and after you turn off the pump. Can this be moved to another sink in the house that is not used as often ? I am contemplating getting the NPE-180A and controlling the pump with a remote control in each bathroom. That installation is incorrect. . First, find the control panel on the front of the unit. Make sure there are no loose connections. FREE Returns . Just like everything with these three characteristics, it is time-consuming and challenging. Thanks for confirming and letting me know about the potential damage to the circulating pump as that hadn't occurred to me. Thats why most homeowners prefer installing the recirculation pump without the extra pipe. With the NRCR you can set your own schedule with a remote accessory and tailor the integrated pump to your lifestyle or scheduled needs. Once the tank is thoroughly drained, clean the base of the heater. Some sort of noise out of your Navien recirculation pump is normal. If you are looking for a tankless water heater that can provide you with hot water 24/7, Navien water heater is the way to go. First, you need to consider Things to consider when sizing the busiest usage period or peak time. If any of them are loose or disconnected, your circulator pump won't work. I have 5 connections including the recirculation in. (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? Is there a proper earth ground point in this switch box? Press the + (Up) or (Down) buttons until the desired temperature appears on display. Pump the white vinegar into the cold side, up through your water heater, and out the hot side. Neither reason is likely to be correct but we would need a much more in depth knowledge of the hot water distribution system and the circulation line in particular. One option is to put a relay/contactor between the Navien and the internal pump, so that that pump can only get power when the house is occupied. Any tips on where to verify if I have a dedicated return line? If you have a Navien tankless water heater this can be done by simply pressing a . Nobody really likes waiting for the hot water to start flowing under the shower or doing the dishes, for example. Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valves direction. Press the Power button on the front panel to turn on the water heater. I recall it was p23 but it was definitely larger than p20. We trusted him and thought everything was just fine as we were getting hot water throughout the house. Here we will cover all the important parts of hot water recirculations pumps, including: You will get an overall look at how you can use increased water pressure by a circulation pump for almost instantaneous hot water access. Also, as I'm taking a closer look at it, I'm concerned that some key things may be amiss. The cost of a separate recirculation pump would fall in the range of $200 and $500, depending on the size required. This is the system you can see in the photos above. = 4.5 x CFM x h (std. The short answer is no, your water will still be pure. The water heater will not provide hot water instantly. Get it as soon as Wednesday, Mar 1. Turn off the power before removing the filter. But in my case its significant amount of time and it only really gets hot if I fully open the hot water at that faucet otherwise it is luke warm. Another suggestion I can give you is to maintain and service your Navien water heater according to the manual. if your water heater has 5 connections ( CW in; HW out; Recirc in; condensate ; gas) then the recirculation is coming backing to the water heater. Years of experience in the HVAC field have taught him many lessons, not the least of which is that the value of quality and knowledge far exceeds any promised initial savings. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot sometimes. However, the plumber branched this off into the circulation water inlet. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. The E760 informs you that its time to flush your heater. 14 Culprits To Check For Now, MMBTU To MMSCFD Calculator For Natural Gas + Chart, 8 Best Infrared Heaters For Indoors, Patios, Garages (With ECO Thermostats), AGM Battery Voltage Charts: 12V, 24V Deep Cycle Battery Voltage, Lead-Acid Battery Voltage Chart For 6V, 12V, 24V, 48V Batteries, Natural Gas MMSCFD To MMBTU/Day Calculator + Chart. You can adjust the temperature by the below 10-degree increments, depending on the temperature range: 98 F-120 F/ 36 C-50 C 1 F or 0.5 C increments, 120 F-140 F /50 C-60 C Press for 2 seconds to adjust in 5 F or 2C increments. DC Wire Gauge Calculator: What Gauge Wire (12V, 24V, 48V)? From the valve, try to loosen up the cap to remove air from the system. Allow it to dry and then fix it back. Call Navien and explain if yours is older. Then replace the heater cover and turn the gas or power back on. Get in touch with Navien technical support at 800-519-8794. We turn it off because it will waste gas. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. Is there a way to tell if the cold pipe is circulatory/return line or cold water from the mains? The only place that quickly gets hot (and really hot) is the guest bath which happens to be right next to the water heater. Quick summary on costs: Recirculating a pump is certainly useful if you want hot water quickly. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. Cookie Notice The leading causes of the intermittent flame; You can fix these issues by maintaining and cleaning the heater. Also, did you wire the PB from the Hot Button kit or only use the remote? JavaScript is disabled. Check to see if the warranty is still valid and contact the manufacturer. Now, we have to check if these costs are balanced out by the water savings. Reassemble the heater and turn on the hot and cold water valves. = heat loss from the circulation system [kW] There is something wrong with limit control. Here is the summary of all the negative aspects of hot water circulation pumps: This is the key question. You need a check valve on the cold inlet 3/4 pipe also from the looks of the picture, you do not have a true designated recirculation line from your furnace fixture. This gives users hot water when they need it, saving water and money. You need to run white vinegar through the system, to descale the water heater. I bought the remote PB you referenced above and the specs on it say it uses 12 VDC, but I couldn't find anywhere whether the 12 V supplied by the Navien board is either AC or DC. Therefore most homeowners try to cut down costs wherever possible, bypassing the recommended installation procedure. Does anybody have any thoughts of what I should get checked out? 08. Both options use less energy than a continuously-running system. I am guessing that he only returned the HOT line, hence the delayed time in "INSTANT HOT", as the Naviens are sold as well as there 96% efficiency!! There is a circulator pump, but it still takes a long time for hot water to reach the upstairs bathrooms. Press J to jump to the feed. Now, that comes to the question, can I turn off my hot water recirculating pump? Worst case is your plumber might have to call since they require them to maintain it. Navien ComfortFlow is the first and only system that incorporates a built-in insulated buffer tank and recirculation pump. Thats all for today. Is this incorrectly installed? When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. Navien NPE-240 A Recirculation Line www.amazon.com/shop/miheatingguy Milwaukee 2131-20 M18 ROCKET Dual Power Tower Light Hot Water Recirculating Loop Owen Perkins 81K views 3 years ago NAVIEN. What disadvantages, beside cost???? Generally, your Navien recirculation pump will produce a humming noise because of the wrong size primary loop, not purging the recirculation pump, or foreign materials getting into the pump. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages, but they do offer the luxury of having hot water almost instantaneously and they save you a lot of water. Also, turn off the water heater, and recirculate the pump. When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. This breaks down the scale and flushes out the sediment. Shut off the appliance for half an hour and then restart. Crazy coincidence that I ran into your post because I've been researching the same issue. I got a Navien NPE 240A2 installed in my home with dedicated recirculating line (hopefully I got the lingo right!)